The fediverse is actually the most hostile and unsafe online place I ever saw. I get insulted and/or blocked by half of the people I engage with. That's so frustrating.

@django didn't notice that. The pattern goes like this:
1 - I spot some toot about a hot topic
2 - I decide to reply (politely) with my (often controversial) point of view.
3 - I get insulted and blocked :(

Happened at least 5 times in the last week. Feels bad. Maybe it's that I'm used to a birdsite-like approach...

@gabriele @django

It must be something related to Italians. YOU polite fuckers. 🤣

(I'm #Italian too... 😉)

This happens to me pretty often too. I think there is cultural mismatch at work.

Some people think (more likely pretend) they are talking in their private room, to their close friends, that share their whole culture and assumptions.
When you try to remind them that the world is way bigger and richer than their little nation (usually U.S.A.)... they block you.
They don't want to listen.

@gabriele @django

On the other hand, we are from a nation that has been a mess for thousand years.

People here celebrate Wars occurred centuries ago between cities that now are part of the same Region, the same State and the same Union.

I've always found such celebration DUMB, until I have found myself explaining my daughter that real people died back then, real people were injured... for nothing!

Such Wars were meaningless then as our Wars are meaningless now.

We learn from our #history.

@gabriele @django

So we tend to look for people that look smart and honest, but as different from us as possible, to expand our wisdom by discussing a topic from different perspectives.

However we have thousand years of debates in our DNA, some don't have such richness.

There are 2 basic rules I follow when I discuss with someone I disagree online:

1. assume the other party could be right
2. assume the other party is in good faith

Until proven otherwise, I keep the conversation open.



If the other party prove to be right, I've learnt a new thing! 🎉 🎉 🎉

If the other party prove to be in bad faith, trying to spread its own beliefs and propaganda instead of assuming I COULD be right as well, I keep questioning their arguments, pointing their logical flaws and so on...

And this is something some people don't like.

But you have to understand them @gabriele, it's nothing personal to them.

They are "influencers".
They have Patreon's accounts!

They cannot be wrong. 😉

@Shamar @django @gabriele

For me it's a temporary situation because the early adopters of Mastodon/Fediverse are here mostly because a political vision: from retrieving the control of own data, technological self-soveregnity, break of the oligopolies of proprietary social networks to radical things like anarchy.

@Shamar @django @gabriele

At the very beginning of Mastodon I kept seeing it promoted as "nazi-free Twitter" and to be honest I knew this meant intolerant people would join because what lead to terms like nazi-free is a cognitive dissonance build through decades of ideological propaganda that as we all know also makes people intolerant, sure to be right and unable to argue their positions, that in the end lead to bullying other users.

@alexl @django @gabriele

I don't know.

I've faced several intolerant people here, but most people seem quite open minded.

The intolerant people seem to react to cliché: for whatever bad is under public shame at date "white men are bad", or "men are bad" or "whites are bad"...

They do not further qualify and feel insulted by any objection: they isolate from any proof of the contrary, so that they support their true oppressors (hidden to their eyes).

I can't see how this can be "temporary".

@Shamar @django @gabriele

I mean Mastodon/Fediverse userbase having a particular political line is temporary, it will grow and there will be more diversity, like on other social networks.

Of course the majority of users here are open minded, but every ideology brings also the intolerant ones and Mastodon userbase is not an exception.


@Shamar @django @gabriele

More ideologies will arrive on the Fediverse and while ideologies are a bad thing, a multitude of ideologies is better than a single ideology, because the confrontation between different points of view is the only way to overcome ideologies and tend to the rational judgment.


@alexl @Shamar @gabriele

What cognitive dissonance and ideological propaganda are you refering to?

@django @alexl @gabriele

Today a pretty exemplary post landed my timeline.

It showed a photo of two people in the middle of an half-cut giant #sequoia.

I can't recall if in the post itself or in a early reply, the OP argued that "white men don't change" or something similar because the cutters in the photo were two white men.

Now I wonder how many black and brown slaves have been employed at cutting such big wonderful trees.

But they don't blame an industry or capitalism, just white males.

@django @alexl @gabriele

Now you'll soon see some SJW coming to argue that being slaves and being workers is not the same and that blacks were not in photos because they were not considered people.

And this is obviously RIGHT, and it's disgusting and all. But you need to point out this only if you assume I'm defending the cutters, while I'm NOT.

To the killed sequoia, the skin of their cutters was totally irrelevant.
So was their freedom.

Slavers were bastards.
Cutters were dumb.
That's it.

@Shamar @alexl @gabriele

wrong, whiteness is a social construct intimately intertwined with capitalism.

The only people that should be offended by the term White males, are those who self identify with the racial construct and dominant economic political system.

@django @alexl @gabriele

I don't identify with much.

I'm #Italian.
Half from #Piedmont.
Half from #Calabria.

For a good half of my life I've been insulted as a "Terrone" so much that I started to love the term and use it to define myself whenever I met new people (usually from north).

Some pretend to not recall that racism was a thing in Italy against Italians too. I recall it VERY well.

My skin change color with seasons.

But I'm white.
And I'm male.

What I'm NOT is racist. Or sexist.

@django @alexl @gabriele

And please be careful with engaging on the #Capitalism relation with this issues.

I'm pretty strong on these.

It's segmentation.

Dividi et Impera.

Each time people talk in term of black, whites, gypsies, jews... whatever, THEY are serving the oppression of Capitalism, WHATEVER they say after.

@django @Shamar @gabriele

That particular ideology is so strong that in English there isn't the right term to name it.

Some people call it "neo-liberalism" but this term is part of the manipulation, because it's not the "new liberalism", there isn't such a thing. In Italy we made a huge and important distinction: liberalism VS liberism. And for reasons the actual ideology is "neo-liberism".


@django @Shamar @gabriele

Fascism and nazism were (bad) replies to liberism, the real cause of WWI&II.

After that some countries had a good time with keynesian economics for decades, then liberism came back and evolved in neo-liberism.

In the neo-liberist propaganda people believe nazism and fascism were born spontaneously and compulsively attack everything that recall them in their mind, not realizing the real enemy is, again, liberism.


@Shamar @gabriele

I think those 2 rules are a pretty good start.

Not sure if you folks also use the expression 'When in Rome, do as Romans do'. There are definitely differences in culture and etiquette in Mastodon vs. Twitter, and this is by design.

Spend some time getting to know the place, the people.

Engaging in controversial topics is something that must be done carefully.

Many people on here face oppression elsewhere and want this to be a safe space , that is their right.

@django @gabriele

Having a safe space is a right.

Insulting millions of strangers world wide (for whatever reason) is not a wise use of such safe space: it IS a call to engage in such controversial topics.

Even because, what's is controversial in a country might be plain solved in another and oppressed people might learn one from another if they stopped to insult each other!

Also, technically speaking, the #Fediverse is a public international world sized square: it's open ended, NOT safe.

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